Return of Callisto
written by R.J. Stewart - Executive Producer
The Chakram Newsletter: Issue 05
SD: We talked previously how you had intended for the story of Callisto to be told over two episodes. Had you envisioned the second part the same time you were writing the first?
RJ: No, but very close after. Before "Callisto" was filmed and maybe even before it was cast, I had the story for the second part. Actually, I wanted the second episode to be a two-parter. It was a “boy meets girl” story.
SD: Perdicus?
RJ: No, a new guy. The first episode was all about Gabrielle falling in love with this guy and in the second part, Callisto would be out to get him. But when it was decided to keep it to a single episode, the only character Gabrielle could possibly have a relationship with that escalated that quickly was Perdicus. That’s why it was decided to have him come back.
SD: In “The Greater Good” where, as we discovered in “Callisto,” Callisto shot Xena with a poison dart, was Hudson cast yet? All we saw of her in “Greater Good” was her boots.
RJ: No, “Greater Good” was filmed after “Callisto.” We didn’t have a firm grasp on who the villain would be in "Good” — how Xena would get wounded. “Callisto” had already been written and we realized we could use that character. I just had to add a line to “Callisto” saying, “You’re the one who shot me with the dart.”
SD: That was a cute little chair you had Callisto sitting in in the jail.
RJ: Silence of the Lambs is Liz Friedman’s favorite movie. (grinning)
SD: Callisto says, “Love is a trick that nature plays to get us to reproduce.” Is this your take on love, RJ? (grinning)
RJ: Well, it is really Schopenhauer’s take on love. He’s a German philosopher I read a lot. It’s the idea that all our social mores are just covers for animal drives. Our instincts are telling us to reproduce and it has to trick us to get us to do so. So we invent this thing called love that decorates our sexual drive, our passion to reproduce. I don’t think it’s my point of view, but it’s definitely Callisto’s. By the way, it’s my favorite line that I’ve written since I've been on the show.
SD: I was fascinated by Xena’s prayer: “If anyone's listening, you know I'm not much for praying, but I don’t know what else to do. I was ready to give up once and Gabrielle came into my life. Please, don’t let that light that shines on her face go out. I couldn’t stand the darkness that would follow.” This was halfway through the second season and Xena had such a vicious past that I guess I never thought she believed in any higher power. But I'm not sure who she was praying to.
RJ: You have to keep in mind that Xena was on the verge of packing it all in when the series began. She was giving up on life. And then she met Gabrielle who has this life affirmation quality, a reverence for life that inspired Xena to go on this quest that made a hit television series! Gabrielle was so embittered by the death of Perdicus that Xena feels that light could go out. Xena's asking for help. She’s asking the universe, the cosmos.
I don't believe she’s praying to the Greek gods because she doesn’t trust them. She's praying to a higher god. She’s asking a moral, decent power that might have influence to intervene here. And I think Gabrielle has always believed in a power like that. They’ve met these Greek gods and know what scumbags they are. So Xena is not going to ask them for anything. It was more of a monotheistic prayer.
SD: Did the Greeks believe there was anyone or anything above the gods on Olympus?
RJ: I would say there’s a question even whether they believed in the Olympian gods. There's actually a book called, “Did the Greeks Believe In the Gods?” Or did they just use them for mythological purposes? I think if you go back far enough, you get into a primitive belief system where there were multiple gods and Zeus was the king of them. Later on you start seeing the gods become more mythological symbols and other religious creeds come in. I would say the idea of a transcendent god out there was not an unknown concept to the Greeks. Most people pray when they're in a jam and they’re terrified of losing someone.
SD: The ending of the shooting script had Xena hold out a branch (which was later changed to a whip) to Callisto and then pull it away and just watch her die. Yet, I’ve seen stills that show Callisto actually holding the end of the whip. Lucy has talked at conventions about trying to protect her character and how letting go of that urge can lead to some of the best experiences she’s had.
RJ: I was down there when they filmed that episode. Lucy didn’t want Xena to let Callisto die. But after killing Perdicus, I felt Callisto had to die. T.J. filmed at least one take in which it looks as if Xena is just watching Callisto go under. The shot showed her throwing the whip out, but she sort of pauses. And they cut the whip out in the final version.
SD: Why did Gabrielle leave Xena to marry Perdicus?
RJ: Perdicus represented to Gabrielle a person she had underrated and didn't see. She had, she realized, grown up around this guy who really ended up meaning a great deal to her. This was a relationship that predated Xena. We established very clearly in “Beware Greeks Bearing Gifts” that there was still very much a connection between Gabrielle and Perdicus. She was very moved by this man, the pain he was in and the love he had for her. What came out in the battle is that she saw how much he needed her. She saw how desperately wounded he was inside.
SD: Is Gabrielle someone who needs to be needed?
RJ: Oh yeah.
SD: Certainly Xena needs her.
RJ: Absolutely. Gabrielle is tortured by the fact that her best friend and confidante in life is someone who goes against Gabrielle's basic principals. This is something we’re really getting into heavily this season. Even Xena is going to question their being together.
Perdicus is someone who has gone through what Xena did, a period of killing, and got to where Gabrielle is. And she was very moved by that. I think she had a huge crush on him when she was twelve, but when she was about seventeen, Xena showed up. Perdicus was this klutzy teenage boy and this great Warrior Princess came into Gabrielle’s life.
SD: You just mentioned this season you are going to have Xena question her beliefs and having Gabrielle travel with her. Can you write yourself into a corner by providing too good an argument and then having to backpedal because if Xena ever convinced herself that she should stop killing or Gabrielle should leave her, that would be the end of the show? (laughing)
RJ: We’ll see. It could be dangerous.