Redemption Songs
Telling tales is Xena Executive Producer Rob Tapert’s trade, and it’s one he takes very seriously. As Eddie Summers found out, this is a man who is quite literally married to his job.
Official Xena Magazine: Issue 01
“Besides the fact that I’m married to the greatest woman that I could ever have imagined in my entire life,” Rob Tapert, executive producer of Hercules: The Legendary Journeys and Xena: Warrior Princess, says, “our life is like everybody else's. We come home, we make dinner - she doesn't like to cook, I like to cook. She gets up early and goes to work, I get up after her but I work at night. So, it has all the same ups and downs of any other relationship.”
Although his marriage may be “incredibly ordinary”, Tapert’s wife is none other than Lucy Lawless, the world-famous lead actress in Xena. But, despite his insistences that he’s just your average Joe, there has to be a difference to the life Tapert leads. This is a man who, amongst many other things, is responsible for the creation and upkeep of a series that has topped the ratings in the US, and is one of the most-watched shows in the world. What does that feel like? “I’m happy, but truthfully I very seldom reflect upon it.” It’s becoming increasingly obvious that this man - who many would say has the world at his feet - is a hot contender for Mr Modest 1999.
“Each week is a battle to get a new show out,” he says, explaining why the success has yet to reach his head. “It's an ongoing process. I haven't reached the point in my life where I can sit back and reflect upon [it]. Nor can anyone else involved say, ‘Oh God this is it!’ Each week, we’re concerned about how the show does, the response to episodes. So it’s great to have something that people like and enjoy, but you always feel the pressure of having to think, ‘How can I entertain people in a new way on this show?’ I should have this problem my entire life!”
So, accepting that Xena is a success, what’s the magic formula? What influenced the creation of this Herculean (so to speak) character? “She was based upon characters from Hong Kong movies - conflicted villainesses who had some good elements and some bad elements... I had wanted to do a female superhero for years, either as a movie or more likely as a television show. [But] I couldn't get my head around Wonder Woman and The Bionic Woman, and [I saw that these Hong Kong villainesses] brought an attitude to the character... We were able to take it and make [our new] character a story of redemption: making it a bad character who was searching for redemption. And that was the spin on a new female superhero that no one had done before."
Tapert’s yen for Hong Kong action films is neither deep-seated nor long-standing. He just kind of likes them. “A guy came to [Sam Raimi, Tapert’s business and creative partner] and I and said, ‘Hey, have you guys ever seen this movie?’ and we said ‘No.’ This was [in the Eighties], and we went to see Chinese Ghost Story. Anyway, we [really enjoyed it]. And then we saw a couple of Hong Kong movies along the way and got introduced to John Woo in The Killer. In fact, [Columbia Pictures] asked us to do a remake of it and we went ‘Jeez, we can't make a better movie than that. But we should make a movie with that guy.’ So ultimately, we ended up doing Hard Target with John Woo.”
One of the biggest ‘chop socky’ influences on Xena is in its hyperactive fight sequences. Bearing in mind just how madcap the bust-ups on Xena can be, what kind of thing goes through Tapert’s mind when he sees them being done? “I like it. It's kind of a kinetic energy that I enjoy, and therefore I assume that the audience is going to like to see it too. Sometimes I think we go a step over the border of defying gravity too much, but all-in-all I enjoy the fights that we do because no one else is doing them.”
That drive to do things his way is one of Tapert’s prime motivators to be involved in the television industry. “I started in the movie business, and was happily ensconced in it, but always wanted to move into television - but for many years my two partners hated television,” he reveals. “Ultimately, we ended up doing some television shows, and my partner said ‘This is awful, I hate it.’ And I said, ‘Ah, no. I love it!’ And he said, ‘Well, you go do it, and I’m going to go back and do movies.’
“I like to produce, and that, in my heart, is what I enjoy on a daily basis. The fact that, for [so many] episodes a year, I get to produce [shows] and no one is able to tell me ‘You can't do this, you can't do that’, I find enjoyable. I enjoy the exercise because [the series] work or they fail based on me and not because somebody else is telling me what to do.
“In feature [films]... it’s changed so much. We did a bunch of low budget horror films [the ever-popular Evil Dead series], and they were great because no one told us what to do. And every other experience in the film business - working with studios - has been a nightmare because there's previews, or there’s studio execs or development execs, but nothing mirrors your vision. At least thus far, Xena and Hercules have not stunk of anybody else, so to speak.”
Tapert speaks with such passion on this subject that it's easy to see that he considers himself a very lucky producer. “To have any amount of creative freedom in television or in movies is a unique position, and very few people enjoy it. For me, it’s what made me love television: I had that freedom that you don't enjoy in the movie business.”
Xena is a phenomenally successful series, broadcast around the world and loved by millions. Anyone reading this magazine has their own thoughts on what its appeal is, but to what does the show’s own executive producer attribute its success? “I’m going to be guilty [of bias] in this case. I think first and foremost, Lucy Lawless makes Xena interesting. Knowing what I know about this,” he says, intimating at the other choices for the lead role, “we side-stepped other pitfalls along the way that may not have ended up as happily.
“On a secondary level, everyone can relate to a story of redemption: ‘I did this in my life which was awful, and I have to live with the consequences of that and find a way to feel better about myself.’ I think that has an appeal. And I also think that, at the time we started, there were no kick-ass women shows, and now Buffy the Vampire Slayer's come along.
“And then I think that, at another level, the crazy, kinetic action of the show is different to anything else - except maybe Mighty Morphin' Power Rangers, but that's not geared for anything but 6 to 11-year-old boys. I think there is an action quotient that gets people who like wrestling!”
And to keep those wrestling fans watching, Xena uses methods currently out of favour with genre television in the US. It dares to treat the stand-alone episode with as much reverence as the various ongoing plot-lines that have developed as the series has progressed. When asked if it is a deliberate ploy to avoid such 'story arcs’, Tapert admits that the efforts to do so are “not enough. I actually think we’re slightly guilty of serialising our show too much. There are story-lines that go on and, as we go forward, we’re going to concentrate on making the series more stand-alone. No, we're not as guilty as Star Trek or Babylon 5, or even The X- Files, of being serialised, but probably either one out of three or one out of two stories we tell is better served if you have seen some previous episode. For the fans, they love that, but for the people who tune in six times a year - which we class as a regular viewer, six episodes out of 22 - sometimes they get lost. So we’re going to either recap things more or make things stand alone more.”
Within that stand-alone formula of the show, Tapert makes room for episodes with hugely differing tones. One week, Xena and Gabrielle might be at each other’s throats over the latest betrayal, the next they might be laughing like drains because Joxer's up to his usual tricks. “You know what?” Tapert says. “That’s life.
“[In life, you get] the incredibly serious drama of ‘What am I going to do? Am I happy with what I’m doing?’ And then you meet your buddies and you have a good lime. Or you hate your friend because, even though they've been your mate for 20 years, they do these shitty things - and then you go out and you have a great time with them, and all of that's forgotten. So that shifting of tones, I really feel, reflects what life is like. I know that it broadens the bounds of television and some people find it disconcerting but, you know, some times are really funny, and some things are really tragic and that’s how it happens.”
Of course, when Xena and Gabrielle aren’t fighting (and sometimes even when they are), their relationship has come under a very unusual scrutiny for a mainstream US television show. “I’ve used the same line a thousand times,” Tapert says of people who wonder about the exact nature of this relationship, “which is: Xena and Gabrielle are the best of mates, and whether they have a sexual relationship is kind of their own business. But they certainly love one another. They would die for one another. Would they be open to sexual experimentation between the two of them? I assume that they would, but I’ve never seen it in a script or on film.”
As Renee O’Connor has commented, the intensity of her on-screen relationship with Xena has been toned down of late. “We went out of our way to calm it down," Tapert admits. “I’m glad that gay people have found something that they like and enjoy and can rally behind. I don’t want to piss on how important I think that is. Two to 11-year-olds watch this show whose parents write me and say, ‘We don't think it’s right that you're telling our seven-year-old daughter to have a lesbian relationship.’ I understand their concern. I don’t want to be the one who says ‘This is what's right’. But I also want to leave the door open for people to say that there’s certainly nothing wrong with this - if this is what makes you happy in life then certainly follow it. It’s a tricky road to walk, but I think both Hercules and Xena have gone out of their way to not pass judgement on people for their race, creed, colour or sexual preference.”
It’s only a shame that some people can’t extend the same courtesy to the show. Last year, Xena ended up in a heap of trouble over the episode The Way, which featured fictional portrayals of Krishna and Hanuman - two important deities from Hindu religion. The final result of the battle was the enforced 'censorship' of the episode, to the point where - as it stands right now - the episode will never be repeated in the US, and it won’t be seen anywhere else in the world. “The World Vaishnava Organisation [whom Tapert describes as “a small sub-group, a splinter faction off the Hare Krishna movement”] were trying to make a play with this controversy to become the guardians of Hindu philosophy and religion,” Tapert asserts. “They took our show as their political cause and used it to make themselves watchdogs for the Hindu community. They were able to turn this into a Renaissance Pictures/Indian community relationship, which we couldn’t allow it to become because that wasn’t the intent.” Tapert claims they bullied smaller US television stations into situations where they had no choice but to pull the episode.
When he talks about this, it’s clear that Tapert is not easily going to give up the battle. “It’s never over till it's over, so it's a fight we're going to continue to fight, and try to garner the support we need to re-air the [episode] around the world without having to worry that the Ambassador to India has heard that we’re insulting Indians.
“Every single day, I wake up unhappy with that whole situation and give it as much attention as I can. There are many people pushing forward ways to stop the censorship this crazy group of people were able to cause.” If you’re interested in helping this cause, you could do worse than drop by http://whoosh.org on the internet, who are promoting a campaign against this censorship. Their site includes detailed statements and arguments from both sides and, if nothing else, certainly makes for fascinating reading.
Although many readers won’t have seen it yet, the season five opener Fallen Angel certainly gave rise to concern in this writer's mind, for precisely the kind of reasons that caused so much trouble with The Way. With its vivid portrayals of angels and demons, Heaven and Hell, and its distinct take on sin and redemption, wasn't Tapert worried that the episode might tug the cape of Christian Fundamentalists? “[Season four’s cliff-hanger The Ides of March] I was more worried about, where we crucified Xena and Gabrielle. There was no backlash to that from the Christian Right... It's one of these insane things: I'm not as afraid of the Christian Right as I am afraid of the Muslims thinking that we've made Gabrielle an Archangel, and [it's an archangel] who gave Mohammed the Koran, supposedly. I'm not that worried, [but then| I didn’t think I was going to have any trouble with splinter groups from Hare Krishna!”
So what with all this religious to-ing and fro-ing, and the fact that, in his own words, Xena “pisses on” every god she ever meets, what is Tapert’s own take on the divine? “I was raised a Catholic, and certainly left that behind ages ago,” he explains. “If you want something enough and place your belief in something and push as hard as you can, you’ll get an answer.
“I have no real religious belief, meaning I never go to church. But if you believe in yourself and what’s good about you, you’ll come out with the right answer.”