A Cat Among The Pigeons
by Sharon Delaney
The Chakram Newsletter: Issue 21
“Your assignment, Sharon, should you decide to accept it, is to meet Lucy Lawless in a Starbucks' parking lot in the San Fernando Valley. As always, should you or any member of your Editorial Force be caught or killed, the boss will disavow any knowledge of your actions. This tape will self-destruct in five seconds.”
Wait! Wait! I recorded our interview on that tape! As smoke begins to rise from my tape recorder, I wonder if I’ll be able to recollect all the details of this latest meeting. The woman with the long, flowing, light brown hair striding across the parking lot heading towards me. What was she wearing? Thigh high leather boots? A red boa? Spiky black hair? A moustache — a moustache?? Surely my mind is playing tricks on me. That couldn't be Lucy Lawless, could it?
Okay, enough with the spy stuff. That's what happens when you write an interview and a trailer for the next James Bond movie is playing on the TV next to you. However, I did wonder who was going to show up for my interview with Lucy this morning.
As we wandered from noisy table to noisy table in the coffee shop and then decided to hold the interview in Lucy's car, that was the first question on my list. I held up a copy of a photograph of Lucy at a recent New Zealand Fashion Show. She was dressed as a man - very dashing, I would say, from the look on the face of the woman she was talking to - complete with moustache and a little goatee.
“What was this about?” I asked in amazement.
Lucy grabbed the photo from me, stared at it and began to grin wickedly. “I wish I'd had a proper makeup artist to apply a proper beard, you know?” she said, still staring at the photo. “To get the full affect.” She began to read aloud the article from the Sunday Star Times:
“All week Lucy Lawless amazed the crowds by turning up in Karen Walker but styled to look like a) a Russian prostitute as described approvingly by international Sex and the City super stylist Rebecca Weinberg; b) a little girl with pony tail and long socks and then c) seated in the front row of the Blanchet show, a man, in a suit, with a moustache.”
Lucy gets to the part where the writer says, “... she came on to me…” and bursts into laughter.
“Did you come as all these people?” I asked in wonder.
“Yeah, sure, just for the fun of it,” Lucy said breezily. “Look at that picture - I'm holding a rose! What a wild photograph.”
“Were you trying to look like a Russian prostitute that first night?” I asked.
“No, that was Rebecca's take on what I was wearing,” Lucy explained. “We hadn't met yet. She was looking over at me and it was obvious she was thinking, ‘Who is that woman? She's either a Russian prostitute or an actress.’”
“What were you wearing?” I prompted.
“I walked in with this fierce jacket. It looked like a gorilla's chest,” Lucy said, waving her arms around trying to show me what it looked like. “A huge jacket. And thigh high boots with a little skirt. A mole on my cheek and a short spiky wig. I looked kind of fabulous. It took Rebecca and the man she was with a while to figure it out. They thought they knew me but they couldn't place from where because they're in this foreign country and how could they possibly know a Russian prostitute.” Lucy chortled with laughter.
“Then I actually saw the fellow with her, who turned out to be Rebecca's publicist, begin to recognize me. I saw him pointing at me. I thought. ‘Does that guy think I'm ridiculous?’ And I just went, ‘Eh. you know what? I don't care!’” Lucy got a wicked expression in her eye. “But I saw his reaction when he recognized me as Lucy Lawless who plays Xena.”
“How about the next night - a little girl?” I coached.
“Long socks and some strappy shoes - it's a Karen Walker, NZ designer, look,” Lucy explained.
“And the following night I thought, ‘Well, for my next trick, what am I gonna do? What am I gonna do to be completely different?’”
Here it comes, I thought. The dare from Rebecca Weinberg.
Lucy laid out the scenario. “It turned out designer Nicholas Blanchet's show that night was called ‘The Other Side.’ I thought. 'What could be more the other side than to show up as a man.’”
“I wish I hada had that beard like I wore in the episode when Renee played the madam, the southern wedding planner?” Lucy said wistfully. “Cause I loved that beard and I really looked like one of my brothers in it. It sculpts my face in a different way. I really don't look like a girl. I can pass much better for a man with that makeup. I went to a wig shop and bought a slightly substandard moustache made out of real hair. And then I cut it up a bit and made a little goatee as well.
“Wasn't quite what I wanted,” Lucy said with a little moue of disappointment. “They had handlebar moustaches which are really funny. Like the one Kevin Smith used to have in the old days. But I wanted something that would match my real hair color. It still looked like Lucy with a moustache.” Peels of silly laughter rang out in the car as Lucy looked absolutely cheeky and proud of her adventure.
“I showed Renee this photo a couple days ago,” I told Lucy. “She was amazed and thought you were brilliant and daring.”
“I could hardly concentrate, my moustache was itching so badly,” Lucy said, wiggling in her seat. “And, on the inside, I was laughing so much at how ridiculous it was. Because all the Kiwis knew it was me. They all knew, they’re just too polite to stare or anything. But the people who’d only just met me that week or the people at the show from other countries didn’t recognize me at all. It was totally amusing because I wasn't fooling anybody from my hometown and I knew it. Which somehow made it funnier, you know? It's like, 'Well, why are you doing it then?’ 'I don't know. Just to throw a cat amongst the pigeons,’” Lucy chuckled gleefully.
“Why be the same all the time?” Lucy asked. “It's fun. I actually prefer to wear trousers in my real life, anyway. They're comfortable, you don’t have to worry how you sit or wonder if you’ve shaved your legs,” Lucy added slyly.
“Did you just go to a fashion show here for the American designer Jeremy Scott?” I asked.
“Yeah, where’d you hear that?” Lucy said with surprise.
I thought she’d know by now that nothing gets by Xena fans. “There was a photographer there who took photos and they were found by fans on an entertainment news images web site,” I explained. “I think you had a beige blouse on with some kind of trim down the front?”
“That was a New Zealand blouse with beading. I’m really jazzed on my own culture at the moment,” Lucy said excitedly. “I'm thrilled with all the designs I saw at the New Zealand Fashion Show. I’ve seen some American stuff here in Los Angeles recently and New Zealand certainly holds up. And, in some cases, the shows were better. Though Los Angeles is not a fashion mecca. All the good designers move to New York before long.
“But the New Zealand shows were very polished and quite cutting edge. Much more European than American in influence. I'm really proud of all the creative people that come out of there. I’m proud of my country,” Lucy said thoughtfully. “I guess I’m getting to an age where I'm starting to see things that are unique and brilliant instead of taking everything at home for granted.”
“It may also be a result of spending more time in another country so that you see your own more clearly,” I suggested. “You really don't notice a place when you spend all your time in it. Where we live, things may be really cool, but to us they're ordinary, everyday. You have to step outside to be able to get a better perspective.”
“A fresh perspective,” Lucy nodded.
“How'd you wind up going to the Scott show?” I queried, picturing Lucy looking through the Sunday papers for fashion shows to attend.
“Rebecca Weinberg's friend, the publicist, Brian Long, invited me,” Lucy explained, shooting down my image of Lucy on the floor marking fashion shows with a red pencil. “He and I hit it off at the New Zealand show and he invited me to come along to some shows in LA.
“I haven’t been out in a very long time except for that recent fashion show at home and I was starting to get cabin fever without realizing it. All I do is talk to little children all day,” Lucy stated matter-of-factly. “And I felt guilty every second I was away from the house and the kids. I was always rushing back to them cuz I'm still nursing the little guy.
“So it's been really good for me to go out. Although I'm a little tired of it now,” Lucy said ruefully. “I have to go out again tonight to the New Zealand consulate to support Vanessa Sheldrick and some friends who made a movie called Snakeskin. They convinced the consulate here to put on a little party for them. There'll be lots of Kiwis,” Lucy said, perking up at the idea of a party with fellow countrymen.
“Vanessa used to work on Xena, right?” I said, the name beginning to ring a bell.
“Yeah!” Lucy said excitedly. “She was an assistant director and became a producer. She has really pulled it off! She's got gumption,” Lucy chuckled admiringly. “And I'm so proud of her.”
Lucy paused for a moment. “As I hear myself saying it, I realize I get really encouraged and enthused by other people's success. It's empowering.”
“If they can do it, so can I,” I offered.
“Right. ‘You go girl!’” Lucy cheered.
“There are an awful lot of people who say, ‘If they've got something ...’” I began.
“‘...then I haven't,’” Lucy finished. “That's a waste of energy.”
“What else have you been doing for fun besides the fashion shows? Have you been to any movies?” I asked.
“I see Pinocchio and Stuart Little four times a week,” Lucy laughed. “And going out to fashion events is work as well as fun. It's about getting yourself out there again. I'm seeing what's new on the cutting edge of things instead of looking at it from afar which is what I was doing during Xena.
“The last six months, however, we've been traveling across America. We visited our family in Michigan. And I got to see Marissa Jaret Winokur in Hairspray on Broadway,” Lucy said excitedly. “She was the actress who I worked with in Grease. She was fantastic! She's dynamite and she’s had a lot of things go on in her life. To see her up on stage is very moving to those of us who are her friends.”
“You went to a Bruce Campbell book signing at Hollywood Book and Poster in disguise?” I asked Lucy the Chameleon.
“Oh my God! How did you hear that?” Lucy shrieked, astounded.
“I bought a copy of his book, lf Chins Could Kill, and he wrote about your encounter in the latest edition,” I said grinning. He wrote:
About an hour into my signing, a tall, trashy-looking woman approached the table. She was wearing the largest sunglasses I'd ever seen and her sandy-brown hair fell, in tangles, to her waist.
“Oh, hello, Mr. Campbell,” she squawked in a very unpleasant voice. “I'm a huuuge fan of yours and I just love ahhhllll of your work. I absolutely luuuuved the book too…”
This freakish woman was gushing so badly I thought she was going to hemorrhage. What the hell is wrong with this broad? I wondered. I've seen some Hollywood weirdos, but this chick takes the cake.
That's when my jaw dropped. Lucy Lawless, that stealthy Warrior Princess, fooled me - hook, line, and sinker. Her post-Xena hair had returned to its normal, lighter color and, to be honest, she was the last person I would have expected to meet in Los Angeles, let alone the Northern Hemisphere. Aside from those lame excuses, lest we forget, Lucy Lawless is also a good actress.
“I had one of those two-toned blonde wigs on like Lil Kim, the singer?” Lucy said, laughing. “But guess what? One of the guys standing in the queue to get his book signed was that wonderful man, Brian Posehn, who plays Kevin from Just Shoot Me - the guy who pushes the cart. He was in line and he does talk like his character sometimes. He said to me, ‘I knew it was you,’” Lucy mimicked, doing one of her dead-on impersonations. “Brian's a wonderful man. And he's a great singer! Did you see that episode where he can sing like an opera singer? He's got a beautiful voice and he's a lovely man.”
“There was a press release about you working on a project for the Discovery Channel about Warrior Women around the world. Are you looking forward to that?” I queried.
“I haven't signed anything at this stage,” Lucy began. “They were hoping to have begun shooting already, but it's an enormous project. I’m very relieved, actually, because my babies are too young to leave and too young to take with me.
“I’d love to do it, it would be fascinating. And, in another five months, I won't be breastfeeding and I'd only be gone about four days at a time to each country. It'll be hard for me to be away from the babies, but they'll be in good hands. Their dad's there and their sister and grandma to take care of them.
“There are some opportunities in life when you say, ‘If I don't do this, I'm going to be an old lady with bruised shins - kicking myself.’ You know?” Lucy said philosophically. “This is one of those things.
“And, Dave Dobbyn, one of New Zealand's best musicians, invited me to come on tour with him over Christmas and New Year,” Lucy said excitedly. “I would love to do that though my agents here, of course, are trying to sign me up for movies and other stuff. But I feel going out with Dave is something I would kick myself for if I didn't do it. I love his work so much. I want to sing Kiwi music,” she said cheerily. “It would be an honor to hang out with him and do BVs.”
“BVs?” I asked quizzically.
“Backing vocals,” Lucy laughingly explained. “It's like somebody who you have admired your whole life saying, ‘You wanna do something really scary and I will be beside you all the way?’ Wouldn't you be an idiot to turn it down? So that I'm hoping it will work out in terms of my family and other commitments.”
“Is he touring New Zealand or other parts of the world?” I queried.
“New Zealand. That's what he and I both wanna do is be with our people. Get back to our roots and this is perfect timing because that's so important to me right now.”
“You listened to his music growing up?” I asked.
“I'll tell you a story,” Lucy said with a grin. “Dave Dobbyn is a guy I went up to when I was 20 years old at some music awards and said, ‘My name's Lucy Lawless and I want you to remember that name because one day I'm gonna do something fantastic.’ He doesn't drink anymore, but he said, ‘Come on down the bar!’ And I said, ‘No I've got to get home to my eight-month-old child. But one day, just you wait!’” Lucy delivered this with the voice of a young kid bragging and then laughed. “And here we are together. And though he does not remember it, he believes it. As he gets to know me better he says, ‘Well, I believe it now!’”
“That's what went through my mind when I heard what you'd done at the fashion show. ‘Lucy showed up as a man,’ they said and I thought, ‘Yep, that's our Lucy,’” I laughed.
“Yeah, why not?” Lucy said defiantly. “I'm kind of shocked that people think it's so outrageous? Do you know what I mean?” she asked in a puzzled voice.
“If it's done here,” I began, “it's not done by people who are known. Cause they're afraid of what people might think if they do something outrageous like that.”
“They don't want to be seen as being gay or transvestite?” she wondered.
“Maybe, but also, the more famous they are the more…” I began.
“...safe they play it,” she finished, nodding her head. “Well, I have nothing to lose.”
“And a lot of fun to have,” I added.
“And a lot of fun to have!” Lucy exclaimed. “That's it exactly, nothing to lose and a lot of fun to have. I like that,” she stated with determination. “And it stops you from identifying yourself in only one way. I recommend, if you have a kooky idea or if you have a genuine compliment, instead of being shy and not paying it, just say it! Pay the compliment! Just cuz you're alive. Don't miss those opportunities to spread a little joy. I also didn't mind giving people the opportunity to go, ‘Oh, what's she wearing that for? That's not very classy,’” she said cheekily in her best snooty voice. “You know, it’s okay, give 'em something to love, hate, remark on, talk about in the car on the way home. Just be alive!”
“I hear Judah's already attended his first award show, the New Zealand Theatre Awards?” I queried.
"They wanted me to say a few words about Kevin Smith,” Lucy said with feeling. “Judah was so little at the time, not even a month old, I couldn't leave him home. I came and did my piece, said hi to everybody and then I had to take my baby home.”
“Did you know that the New Zealand Sunday Star-Times sent trick or treaters to your house for Halloween?” I asked.
“I wasn't there, but we would have had something for the kids because, even though it's not a holiday in my country, Rob’s American,” Lucy explained. “I took my kids trick or treating with Sam Raimi and his kids.”
“Were you dressed up?” I asked, imagining Lucy coming up with some elaborate and crazy costume.
“No, I wasn't,” Lucy answered.
“You’re weird,” I said laughing.
It took a moment and then Lucy realized what she'd said and burst out laughing.
“The one time you're supposed to dress up, you don’t!” I said in exasperation.
“Isn't that funny?” Lucy roared with laughter. “If I'd had room in my suitcases and wasn't toting two little kids, I would have brought the Xena costume and worn it. I know someone would have said, ‘Oh you look just like Xena except your hair's wrong.’ Or they would have said I was too pale or too short. I would have done it just to hear the comments.” Lucy said mischievously.
“Julius was afraid of his costume,” Lucy said. “He was a little skeleton? You know those Spandex suits with a glowing skeleton on them? He was scared of it, so he wouldn't wear it. When I took him to the costume shop. I was trying to get him to choose something like Clifford the Big Red Dog. I couldn't get him interested. Now I know the reason is because he's afraid of the costumes. When we went out trick or treating, he walked around saying, ‘Sorry I'm not in costume.’ He said, ‘trickle treat.’ Then it became 'triple treat' because he started double dipping. He couldn't believe people would give him sweets for nothing. We told him we were going door to door for his birthday,” Lucy said laughing.
“He didn't know what Halloween was, did he?” I said.
“No. We tried to tell him, but we thought it was better for him to feel all these people were doing nice things for his birthday.” She added, “Rob wasn't in New Zealand for his birthday and wanted to do something special when we got back to America. And we got here right before Halloween so…
“Judah was Dumbo and he looked so cute. He's got these slightly sticking out ears,” Lucy chuckled. “I remember someone in the family referring to him as Dumbo and me being slightly mortified. But then I saw this cute little Dumbo suit. I put him in it. He’s so sweet, he's just as innocent as Dumbo in that first scene before his ears unfold,” she said, her face melting with love just like Dumbo's mom.
“People noticed the shirt you're wearing in the 'Coffee Talk' photos that says Makamba Academy Chimpanzees Division Champs,” I told her.
“That's a shirt I bought from Dari on Laurel Canyon. Some of the money went to save the chimps. I wasn’t putting it on to solicit donations, though. It was just what I happened to have on that day,” Lucy said.
“You gave soccer balls to kids in Africa?” I asked.
“I've sponsored a couple kids with World Vision for a while and they sent out a letter asking for soccer ball donations. I thought that was a great idea because it brings people together. It was their terrific idea and I was just running with it. It did an amazing lot of good,” Lucy said softly.
“You know, some people will be given something and they will… they will take that ball and run with it,” Lucy said with admiration. “I made a donation to a village and they bought a pair of goats. Soon they had 20 goats. They had a successful harvest and stored maize. They're surrounded by famine. And they would have been starving too.
“It really wasn’t that much money and it freaks me out what a difference it made. What if World Vision hadn’t asked me to make a donation? Those people would be in terrible straits. I encourage anyone who's thinking of doing it, that your money's put to the most efficient use by these tremendous people. I'm sure all those other charities are great too, I just happened to have gotten involved with World Vision,” Lucy added.
“I like to put things like this in the newsletter because Xena fans are a giving group of people,” I told Lucy.
“I know. Why do you think I've been doing this all these years? I stay in touch with the fans as a compliment to them. Those tremendous people have done so much good and supported each other in ways other than financially as well. That means a lot to me,” Lucy said warmly. “They're classy human beings.”
“Why did you do the Bernie Mac show?” I said and then whispered, “Matt Damon, Matt Damon.”
“Oh, yeah, cuz Matt Damon flew me in from New Zealand as per the script,” Lucy said, laughing. “I think they asked me because Serena Williams was busy winning Wimbledon. It came up and I'd just had a baby and thought I'd love to do something. It was two days of hanging out with very funny, charming people.”
“How's Bernie?” I queried.
“He's great!” Lucy said enthusiastically. “I love any show where the star takes responsibility for setting a tone and helping move the day forward. The junior members of the cast are never going to get out of control because Bernie's not out of control. He doesn't give them an example of bad behavior and he wouldn't allow it in them, I feel. He sets a great example and I know how important that is. He's worked darn hard to be where he is. He's paid his dues. I guess he expects other people to in the nicest possible way. Some people are excellent at treating one another well. That’s Bernie.”
“You got to use your golfing skills,” I teased.
“Such as they are,” Lucy said wryly. “I was surprisingly good, actually. They had to teach me to do it wrong. When they tell you. ‘We're going to have Xena golf,’ you think they want Xena to be good, cuz Xena's so good at stuff and Lucy isn't. But I turned out to be better than I ever would have thought and they had to teach me how to hit it way off course to the left. I was consistently sending it to the same place. It was like an exercise in humiliation making Lucy look ludicrous. But, as you know, I'm not averse to that,” Lucy laughed good-naturedly.
“Any other news?” I asked.
“Tilly is pregnant and she's due in November!” Lucy said, bouncing on the seat. “And Tsianina Joelson just had a baby who is now ten weeks old. I'm going to go visit her tomorrow. She is so very happy.”
I’d just completed an interview with Renee a few days before and she made some interesting observations about Lucy that I thought I'd share with her friend.
“Renee talked about the Meissner acting technique she studied before beginning Xena,” I began. “She said:
“I found this technique to be a hindrance to me because a lot of times I was working off balls, sticks, tennis balls on sticks.”
Lucy burst out laughing at this accurate portrayal of life on a fantasy show. I continued reading Renee’s comments:
“You can't react to what someone else is doing because they’re not there! I learned how to fix it through Lucy. Lucy creates a world while she's acting in a scene. She can play every character if she wanted to. She knows what response each character should have in order to get to where they need to be. I learned from her how to adjust in situations where I didn’t have anyone to work with.”
“Oh, wow, that’s quite a compliment,” Lucy said softly. “We both learned a lot from each other. I think she’s right that I am immediately submerged in that world. I don’t see the tennis ball,” she laughed.
“I remember once you watching a scene from the show and groaning at the fact that you felt you were overacting,” I prompted.
“Overacting happens when I'm tired and trying too hard to compensate,” Lucy explained. “When I did bad work, it was me compensating for not feeling like I was on the ball. But I'm glad it wasn't the other way, that I just didn't give a damn. I'm proud of the fact that I at least tried too hard rather than not enough.”
“That's an interesting point for an actor that if they're tired, they can walk through it. But if you are trying and overacting, somehow you're still giving to the audience,” I said, thinking out loud.
“You care,” Lucy said vehemently. “You don't want to let everyone else down by not giving everything you've got.”
“Here's another comment from Renee,” I said.
“The style on Hercules was comedic. I came to Xena thinking that show was the same. Lucy was so complicated and complex as Xena. And really, really dark. It took me a long time to come to Lucy's level of where she was playing the show, in terms of style.”
Lucy was listening intently. “Hmm, interesting,” she said quietly to herself. I went on:
“You see how animated I am in this scene? Lucy was so still, I had to balance that. I had to come to play in her field.”
“Oh, how interesting!” Lucy exclaimed. “Renee’s very analytical and very good at analyzing things. To me it’s like jazz. I’m just going whatever I’m doing and not analyzing it. It's so interesting to hear her take on things cuz I never would have thought of any of that,” she said and I thought I heard a touch of pride in Renee in her voice.
I began to read again:
“I thought Gabrielle was perky, full of energy. I was very much aware I was bouncing around. They called me the bouncing ball on set.”
“Did you ever hear that?” I asked Lucy.
“From the focus pullers,” Lucy nodded. “They said that Ren was always moving in and out. Probably the reason I was still was because I wanted to be in focus. To help out. I’m very production friendly. And maybe sometimes I’m wrong to do this.”
Lucy was quiet for a minute. “That's what I learned from Renee,” Lucy stated. “Sometimes, to be true to the character, you have to tell yourself the crew can do their jobs, don't patronize them. You need to be real in this situation and not think of everyone else.
“Moving at the pace we did, you had to hit marks,” Lucy explained. "The director would say, ‘Okay, the first bit of this walk is going to be fast. Then, as you come around the corner, slow down. Then you go past a pillar. Go fast so the camera isn't on an empty pillar for too long. You’ve got to whiz around the pillar and then resume your slow walk.’ There's a lot of that kind of thing, but what I learned from Renee is to not always be thinking of that. Do your job, not theirs.”
“There's something else Renee mentioned at the end of our interview,” I said to Lucy. “We were watching the end of ‘Sins Of The Past’ and Xena and Gabrielle were walking over the hill together. Renee sat back in her chair and said, ‘I miss Lucy. I miss seeing her every day.’ Even though the work was so consuming - it's not like you were able to spend hours talking - she said you found moments together.”
“Yeah,” Lucy grinned. “We’d be behind a door carrying on a conversation over about eight takes. They call cut and you whiz back behind the door and carry on exactly where you left off, ‘And then Steve said…’
“We’ll work together again, whatever happens,” Lucy stated confidently.